Latest Episode: S2:E7
Navigating Social Media and Technology Across Two Households
In this episode, Dr. Gordon addresses how co-parents can manage technology and social media between two households, offering practical strategies to protect children’s development. Discover how excessive screen use can impact sleep, social skills, and mental health, and learn how to set consistent boundaries and encourage offline activities. Dr. Gordon highlights the importance of cooperation, open communication, and creating a healthier digital environment for children, no matter which home they’re in.
S1:E1 - Introduction
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 1
"Introduction"
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode one of the Co -Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting education for parents going through divorce or separation. And my name is Jaimie, and today I'm here with Dr. Donald Gordon, our executive director and founder of the company. And today we will be introducing you to his background and inspiration behind starting the company. So, Dr. Don, why don't you tell us a little bit more about you and your experience and credentials?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: I'm a father of two, grandfather of two. I got my doctorate in psychology and with an emphasis on child clinical psychology and family psychology. And I spent my career being a professor of psychology at Emory University and Ohio University. Throughout that time, I was training doctoral students to work with children and families and to help kids with behavior problems.
And then I started focusing on families of divorce and training doctoral students to work with those families. I also trained students in doing family therapy with families of delinquents. And that led me into the current work with divorcing parents. - And we do know that you're considered one of the top experts in the field of parents and children.
>> Jaimie: What made you start the Center for Divorce Education and Parenting classes?
>> Dr. Don: Well, when I was doing my work with delinquents and their families, we were doing home based family therapy. I noticed that in almost all of these families, the biological father wasn't present. They had gone through a divorce or separation and the father wasn't having any regular contact with the kids.
And especially teen boys, that was really harmful. And sometimes the mom would have a live-in boyfriend. Sometimes she'd be remarried with a stepfather, but there was just not much contact with a biological father.
So I did some reading and the research literature, and it looked like that with a big risk factor for delinquency was the child not having contact with one of their parents, usually the father. I figure, okay, how could we keep fathers involved after the parents separate? I wasn't optimistic that I could keep people married or in a relationship. I'd gone through two divorces and I wasn't really optimistic that it could be easily done. And so I figure, okay, let's figure out a way to keep both parents involved with the kids after they separate.
And that would really reduce kids' risk for problems, including delinquency. Then around that same time, I went through a really difficult divorce myself. And it was a really long-term, high-conflict divorce. So I wanted to have shared parenting or joint custody and the court, the judge didn't believe in that. And in those days, the judges almost automatically gave custody to the mom, regardless of the competence of each parent. And that really offended me. And I had a colleague, Jack Arbuthnott, who was also working with me in the area of delinquency. And he went through a divorce around the same time too. But his ex -wife agreed to joint custody and they really cooperated very well and they shared their child together without conflict.
And I was really impressed with that. And so he and I talked together about, how do we get parents to have the kind of divorce he had and not have the kind of divorce I had? And that's when we decided we would develop a divorce education program to teach parents about how to have a divorce that didn't harm the children.
That's what caused us to develop this program. At the time we developed it, there were virtually no programs like this in the country. This is around 1990, 1991. And it just was just not done. And then we started advertising this program. We focused on the ways that parents put their children in the middle of the conflict without being aware of it.
Because our research had shown that that was really harmful for kids, and that the most harmful aspect of divorce was being put in the middle of the parents' conflict and where the child had to choose which parent to be loyal to and just tore them apart.
So we focused the course material like a laser on that issue. And we filmed scenes of parents putting the kids in the middle. And then we filmed scenes of parents using skills to not do that.
So that was our idea to try to focus closely on the most harmful aspects of divorce. And we did a lot of video showing those scenes. And then after a while, that spread. And by the late 1990s, most courts in the country were requiring parents to get co -parent education. That idea took off with judges. They saw the benefit of parents getting education.
>> Jaimie: Right, right. And especially with video scenes of real -life type situations that most parents get stuck in. Yes. Would you say after you went through your divorce that the courts are better about joint custody or having fathers involved?
>> Dr. Don: Oh, definitely. There's been a big change. It's still not equal. In many courts, there's still a preference for maternal custody. But it's changed dramatically. Particularly as there are more younger judges, more women judges, they seem to be more open to both parents being involved with their children and gender roles have changed over the last 20 years. And you have a lot more men going into a relationship expecting to be heavily involved with parenting. And the mothers are looking for men who will be involved with parenting. So that's helped change that too.
>> Jaimie: Some states require parent education and others don't. So it does differ based on state as far as the court systems and how all of that works too, right?
>> Dr. Don: Yes, and it's frustrating to see large states like New York and California that when you get a divorce, you're not required to do co-parent education. Some individual judges may require that, but statewide they're not doing it. So it's a real pity because divorce is the second most stressful life event that people go through. And to go through that without any guidance doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
People really need guidance going through something that's that stressful. 'Cause for most people, this is the first time they've gotten a divorce and they don't know how to deal with it. And they're kind of freaked out.
They're in a fight or flight mode and they're not showing their best, especially in front of their children. And they can be taught how to do that, how to get themselves out of fight or flight mode and how to use skills to resolve their problems. They learn to do that. But without education, they're probably not gonna learn to do that.
>> Jaimie: Right, would you say, I mean, when you developed the program, did you expect that we would have, what are we at, about 5,000 parents a month now taking the program?
>> Dr. Don: I think initially we saw it grow. I actually expected it would be greater because there's not very many programs out there that teach skills and do it in a way with really high quality video that has an emotional impact and is personally relevant.
So they're mostly just giving parents information. For those of you who've gone to an interesting talk or lecture with interesting information a week or so later, you don't remember much of it. So I think if they're not remembering the information, what's the point? We need to give them new skills that they incorporate into their daily lives that change their behavior and that's what benefits parents and kids, not just giving them information. So I was expecting that since our program is doing a really good job of teaching skills, that it would be widely used, but it is not as widely used as I think it should be.
>> Jaimie: Right, and that also has a little bit to do with those court systems you were talking about earlier and requiring parent education or not. Obviously, yes, the other programs that may not benefit parents quite as much too.
The Children in Between Online program also has won awards.
>> Dr. Don: Yes, we've gotten Telly awards for educational video and W3 awards for animation and video. The video production is very high quality. We spent a lot of money to produce something that was really high quality because we wanted parents to look at it and to have an emotional impact on them. We wanted them to look at the scenes and say, "Yes, that's me." Yeah, and it benefits them. And they benefit from that. And then when they identify with the parents in the scenes making these mistakes, like putting the kids in the middle, having conflict in front of the kids, then they pay attention to how to solve that problem.
And then we show parents using good skills to help resolve the conflict, to move them forward in the conversation and to calm themselves down. Having a high quality video makes that possible. And I think it's well worth doing because you only get parents for a brief amount of time, four hours, and you really have to make an impression in that four hours for them to carry forward with something after they finish the program that they can use in their daily lives.
>> Jaimie: Right. And it obviously is even better that you have had experience there. You've had the education, and you developed a wonderful program to help parents.
So thank you for sharing, Dr. Don. In our next few episodes, we will be going over some parent feedback that we've had on our programs. We'll bring Dr. Don back on to give his professional expertise on the subjects. Whether you are going through divorce or separation, we do encourage you to take a look at our programs. Thank you.
Join Dr. Donald Gordon and co-host Jaimie MacArthur as they introduce “Dr. Don’s” credentials and background, the founding of The Center for Divorce Education, and some interesting facts about children and divorce.
S1:E2 - Lying to Your Child
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 2
“Lying to Your Child”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to the Co -Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents, and today I have my colleague Chelsea with me, and we're going to be going over some feedback that we have recently received from a parent who took our program. Today's subject is, "What do you do if your co-parent is lying to your children?" I'm going to assume that this is referring to co-parent lying about the other parent to their children, and we will bring on Dr. Don here in a little while, and he can give us his professional feedback on the subject. But what are your thoughts on this, Chelsea, about lying to your children?
>> Chelsea: My thoughts as a mother immediately go to one of two situations, either somebody lacks integrity to which I would highly recommend professional help. However, I think that there is a larger part of the parenting community that may feel like their intentions behind a lie are good, and therefore they justify it. I think in those situations, it's coming from a place of protectiveness, which is an instinct. But truth be told, how we handle that instinct is truly an opportunity for us to represent ourselves and show our children who are watching us how to handle big, powerful emotions. We can also use that as a challenge. It's hard, but it's not impossible.
>> Jaimie: Right. What do you mean by lying with good intentions?
>> Chelsea: Let's say a parent doesn't show up for their child's graduation, but they promised that they would. The child would be heartbroken and crushed, and the other parent that did show up may feel stuck covering for them. That's where I could imagine a lie coming in to protect the child might be relevant. In situations like that, I'd say don't lie, because that reflects poorly on you. You have to be a healthy role model, and that's your responsibility, and you can really only control yourself. So it is okay to admit that you don't have all the right answers. It is enough to just let them feel what they need to feel and just be there.
>> Jaimie: Right. No, I agree. And we do know that our program and workbooks actually outline what may be appropriate to share with your children as well. So you obviously wouldn't want to share the same things with a six year old as you would with a 15 year old, right? Because they're at different levels and they wouldn't understand the same things. In my opinion, usually a coping mechanism, lying to your children because you're trying to take your hurt feelings and put it on the other parent.
And maybe not in all cases, but that definitely is, we see that a lot with co-parenting, putting your child in a loyalty bind. So I will actually go over a few points from our What About the Children? workbook. The children are not responsible for the divorce and separation, obviously. You will always still love them, both parents. They still have a family, including both parents, and explain who they likely will be living with as far as grandparents, moving, that type of situation. What routines will be the same and what will change as far as the bedtime activities, school, what parent is taking them where and when, and let them express their feelings and concerns about the divorce and separation as best as you can. But at no point in this entire book does it say to lie to your children, especially when it's concerning the other parent.
>> Chelsea: Exactly. And I love those points from the workbook because there's this common misconception that divorce or separation is the end of a family. It does feel that way, but really it's just the start of something new. It's okay that it looks different than what you thought it should look like. And I think that it's really important, because of those points, to focus on not putting our kids in a position where they have to play both sides or pick and decipher what's real and what's a lie. We don't want to manipulate our children, and that's really important to teach them to not be that kind of a person.
>> Jaimie: Right. Kids are sponges, so you're basically their role model. And when you lie to them, especially about the other parent, they also feel what both parents feel, usually. So let's say I'm telling my child, “Your dad is stupid,” or, “Your mom is stupid.” Well, my child relates also with that other parent. So I'm telling my child, hey, this is part of you as well. And it can definitely backfire later on. So I feel like this is more likely to happen also with teenagers, because with teenagers, they usually have a better understanding of what is going on, the divorce and separation, and they're more likely to pick sides between mom and dad. That really can, in the end, put your child in a situation with feelings that they're not ready for.
>>Chelsea: With the children, especially of that age, you're dealing with kids who are much more cognizant of what's going on around them, but they are still children, so they only know so much, they only know what they're taught, and if you keep them in the dark on certain things, and you only show them what you want them to know, they're not stupid, they'll pick up on what's between the lines, but they're not going to fully understand the situation. So it's something that you want to be very mindful of along the way, because like you said earlier, they will resonate with that.
>>Jaimie: What I will do is go ahead and bring on Dr. Don, our expert here, and see what he has to say about the subject. Dr. Don, what is your professional opinion about lying to your children?
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: When you're in that situation, you need to search what your intentions are. What are you trying to accomplish? If you're trying to make the other parent look bad, and it's a common temptation when you're going through a contentious divorce or separation, that's going to put your child in a bad situation to making the other parent look bad, so look at your intentions, and notice if you're in a fight or flight mode. If you're in a fight or flight mode, that means part of your brain, the amygdala, is causing you to either attack or counterattack or flee, and you're not able to attune to your child's emotions when you're in that fight or flight mode. So you're not able to imagine how your child is going to react to what you're telling them about the other parent lying. So it's necessary to calm yourself down before you say anything, and we teach parents how to do that with the breathing, with thinking of some happy memories, with being grateful for certain things, to get yourself calmed down.
Then what you can do is to tell your child that the other parent must have forgotten their event. Sometimes their other parent over-schedules, they get too committed to something else and simply forget. That's a much easier piece of information for the child to handle than to think the child that parent intentionally chose to be with, say, a date than with them at their special event.
>> Jaimie: Right, right. And I'm not sure of what this parent that gave us this feedback, their specific situation was, but like you said, lying with certain intentions is the point. So if your child is, let's say they do have an event and you have to miss the event because you're at work or you had a prior commitment that you have to go to. And then the other parent goes to the child and says, "Oh, well, your mom or dad is on a date." And that's why they couldn't make it, which is lying to the child. Their intentions are negative. They are purposely making that other parent look bad to the child, which is the issue.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Well, in this situation, a couple of skills that would be useful is don't assume motives on the other part of the other person. So consider what are some other motives besides the negative ones you assumed? And there's some maybe benign or even positive motives. Once you make yourself aware that there are other motives for the other parent's behavior, then you're less likely to stick with a bad motive.
Another important skill is “stop, look, and listen,” is to stop yourself from reacting defensively and with anger and doing that by taking some deep breaths, pausing, thinking of a good memory. So you stop yourself, then you look at all your options for responding. Don't just go with the first one that comes to mind because you're in a fight or flight mode. What are the different ways you can respond to this situation? And then finally, listen to your better nature. Show the better side of yourself when you respond, instead of showing the worst side of yourself because you're in a fight or flight mode.
>>Jaimie: Right, right. No, that makes perfect sense. And we appreciate your feedback here today, Don. Whether you are looking for a divorce, have already been divorced or are thinking about divorce or separation, the skills do work and they do help. And we encourage you to tune in next time. Thank you.
In this episode, co-hosts Jaimie MacArthur and Chelsea Murry discuss the implications of lying to your children about your co-parent, and bring on Dr. Don to introduce skills for avoiding this common problem for divorcing and separating parents.
S1:E3 - Parent Dropout
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 3
“Parent Dropout After Divorce or Separation”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode three of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. And today I have Chelsea with me again. I'm Jamie and we'll be going over a parent comment that we received with our program, the Children in Between Online program. What to do when one parent doesn't want to be involved in their child's life? That's good. Yeah. So this is a touchy subject.
We'll go over what our workbooks that are free to download in the program say as well as what's in our program. So what are your thoughts on this, Chelsea, when a parent doesn't want to be involved?
>> Chelsea: I think the number one thing to remember in situations where there is little to no contact with the other parent, is that it then becomes your responsibility to ensure that that child is not blaming themselves. And, that is due to the parent's absence. And that is one thing that we've known statistically right, after plenty of studies, plenty of clinical trials. That is one thing children do. Sometimes it hits later in life. Sometimes it's present in the moment, but it does affect them. And that is something that you can work to sort of navigate if you pay attention to it. I think that in the Children in Between workbook actually we emphasize that they need to know that the other parent does still love them at the very least. They just need to know that the other parent still loves them, and I know how complicated that can be, but it is critical that they know that the other parent isn't trying to purposefully hurt them.
Focus on what you can control really at the end of the day. You showing your child what healthy love does look like with your actions is pivotal.
>> Jaimie: Right, no I completely agree. There are many reasons why a parent can drop out. We know that, you know, drug and alcohol use, mental illness, so many other reasons, but I personally, just me, if a parent wants to drop out I say let them, but you do in these circumstances have to think about the child and what's best for that kid.
We do know that when a parent drops out of a child's life that it can cause all kinds of issues later on, mental illness, drug and alcohol abuse, delinquency, many many others, so you do have to think about the kid in the end of the day. Telling your child that hey, you know, dad is just at work and he'll see you later is also just as ineffective for the kid. You don't want to lie to your child either, so there's a fine line of what do I say to my kid when the co-parent doesn't want to be involved and I think telling them simply, you know, your mom or your dad is dealing with their own stuff right now, so you may not see them for a little while, but they still love you is the best thing that you can do for your child in my opinion.
>> Chelsea: Right, that's pretty age -appropriate too. I certainly believe that a neutral stance is a safe stance, which that was perfect. That was a great example. It's you didn't necessarily defend them. You still protected your child's feelings. You're mindful. I mean, I think that's a great general response. In the Children in Between workbook, we also say to give the other parent the benefit of the doubt, which, honestly, may be the most challenging part, because that requires you to create some sort of trust with someone who's likely given you plenty of reasons to not trust them as a partner in life and as a co-parent. However, remember what's at stake. I mean, if it's your child's mental health that's at risk, why not at least try to keep some hope alive? I think that the key here is to compartmentalize- just because someone has failed you on a personal level doesn't necessarily mean that they are an unfit or unsafe parent, which is important to remember because if you end up in front of a judge, that's what the court cares about. They don't care that they hurt your feelings or that they cheated on you or they did shady stuff. They care if that other person is safe, if they can provide a safe environment, if they are fit to parent. You can be agonizing, watching someone disappoint your baby and then be the one that's left there to pick up the pieces, but again, you just have to focus on what you can control.
>> Jaimie: New relationships as well, I think that's, in my opinion, the most common thing that we see is when one of the parents moves on, gets into a new relationship, and then the other parent can't be around the child because the parent that has custody won't allow it at that point, and that is so wrong. Just because a relationship ends does not mean that you get to keep your kid from the other parent.
>> Chelsea: Which there's a term for that. Parental alienation.
>> Jaimie: Exactly. You really do have to think about your child in that situation. What's best for them in most circumstances is to have both parents involved, and obviously, that does not include domestic violence or substance or mental health issues. Let's go ahead and bring on the expert and see what his opinion is on the subject.
All right, Dr. Don, what is your professional opinion on when a parent does not want to be involved with their child?
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: There's a lot of different reasons for that. The parent may not have much confidence in their parenting skills, particularly if the other parent has been mostly involved raising the child while they were together. And they were peripheral when they were with the other parent, and they didn't have much confidence in their parenting skills. And you've combined that, that they had a lot of confidence in the other parent's parenting skills. They figure, well, it's not going to hurt the child if I don't see them because they're getting good parenting. And I wouldn't be very good at this. And quite often, this is the father that thinks this way. And it wasn't until more recently that fathers have been, know that they need to be involved in their children's upbringing. The father would think that my ex is doing a really good job. My being involved isn't really necessary, particularly if they had lost their temper with the child, one time said something mean or hit them, spanked them, and figure the child's not going to forgive them. Or if they have a substance abuse problem, they're going to think that I'm not good for my child. And perhaps the mother has said that, you're a drunk, no good for your child. There also could be the fact that in this case, the father didn't have a father very involved with him when he was growing up. So they didn't have a role model and never learned how to do that. And they don't know that parents can learn parenting skills in a fairly short period of time, and they can improve over time with those skills, so that it's not static. Because they're not very good now, doesn't mean they're not going to be good in the future. And quite often, fathers who haven't been very involved, after the breakup, they'll get very involved with the kids and really like it and really get very good at it. Just because you haven't been very involved while the relationship is going on doesn't mean that they're not going to be a really good parent once you put your mind to it.
Another big issue is the father in this case, this example, the father has a new partner and he feels badly about having failed in the first relationship. So he's overly eager to make the next relationship work. And if the new partner is as common, discourages him from seeing his children, perhaps out of a fear that he might go back to his ex if he has contact with the kids. If she discourages him from seeing his children, since he's trying so hard to make that relationship work, he's more likely to not see his children, to please his new partner, particularly if they have children together and she's making a point, you need to be involved with this family, your other family, it's in the past. And there's more pressure on him not to see his children from the first relationship.
>> Jaimie: Right. Yeah, you bring up some really good points that I hadn't even thought of, to be honest. Alcohol, drug abuse, those types of things are a big factor generally for parents not wanting to be involved. And in some cases, maybe that is the best situation. We don't know where they can go and get help because most parents, your child needs you. So I cannot relate to just dropping out of a child's life. That makes no sense to me, but there are situations where I can understand why somebody would. So in most of the cases that we see, they choose to avoid contact with that other parent and therefore they're losing contact with their child as well.
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: Yes, this is true, particularly when that parent who's not seeing the child is still not over the first relationship. They still have attachment to that other partner, might even be in love with them. When that parent has, let's say in the case of mom, has repartnered and has a new boyfriend or even remarried or he's living with her. For the father to come and see the kids, it's intolerable to see her with another man. And he's also afraid they'll have conflict in front of the kids, which he thinks will hurt the kids. So he's, in a way, being protective of the kids by not going there because he'll protect the kids from conflict.
Plus, he can't deal with it himself. He can't deal with his envy and jealousy that she has a new partner. Regardless, the mother should encourage that contact with the father and the children. And she may have to tell her new partner that that's important for the children and she's going to stand up for that. And if he objects to her ex coming by to see the kids, she needs to draw a line in the sand and say, "My children's developed that need, they need contact with their father. And I'm going to support that and you'll have to just deal with it."
>> Jaimie: I guess what you're saying is that it does take both parents.
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: When we first developed the Children Between Program, we had interviewed many undergraduates at the university whose parents had been divorced. And some of them, they had no recollection of their fathers because the parents split up when they were infants or toddlers. And they never, never saw, they didn't know their fathers at all. But even as college students, when they had birthdays and holidays rolled around, Christmas time or Hanukkah, they were still hoping for contact for this father they never knew, that they never stopped hoping that the father would get in touch with him. So when that didn't happen, that pain is always there.
So both parents need to realize that that's going to be long, long-term damage for the child if the parent drops out of their life.
>> Jaimie: Right, right. And I think that's the most important thing, is think about your child in the future and what you want for them, what's best for them. It can be painful being around an ex. It can hurt to drop out of your children's lives, but what hurts the most is the children. And you have to think about them before you decide, "No, I'm better off." You know, or they're better off without me. So thank you, Don, for being here today. And we hope to see you guys next time.
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: Okay, you're welcome.
What happens when one parent drops out of a child’s life after a divorce or separation? Co-hosts Jaimie and Chelsea discuss some of the reasons for parents dropping out, and Dr. Don gives suggestions for co-parents navigating this difficult transition.
S1:E4 - Holiday Tips for Co-Parents
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 4
“Holiday Tips for Co-Parents”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 4 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I'm Jamie, and today I'm here with my colleague Chelsea, and we'll be discussing some holiday tips for co -parents. We will also bring on Dr. Dawn in a little while so he can give his professional expertise as well.
So, Chelsea, since the holidays are coming up, why don't you give us a few pointers for parents and their kids?
>> Chelsea: The first one is the holidays are for children, and they should be center stage. Above all, give your kids permission to love their other parent. Your children will have a range of feelings this holiday. Go ahead and slow the pace. Also, take care of yourself, and be kind to yourself. Make any sort of travel that you have fun, if you can. Be kind. I know that's hard, but be kind. Learn to use your iMessages.
If you don't know what an iMessage is, I highly recommend you scour our resources page, look into our skill practices, and check out CIBO. We explain it in detail, so you can actually use this to help communicate along the way.
Put a stop to any trash talk. Don't talk down on others, including your co -parent. Share the kids, even when it's your time with them. And that's a challenge, but it's not something that is impossible. It can still be really beautiful. You can still co-parent through the holidays. Communicate, coordinate, and then be flexible.
Make gift arrangements, if necessary. Ask what your kids want as frequently as possible. Stop looking, listen is another skill that really comes in handy here. And we teach that in CIBO. This is a very challenging moment. When your family dynamic is being pressed and you're open to new opportunities and new challenges, especially if this is your first one as a co-parent.
>> Jaimie: In a lot of these situations also, parents may have just divorced or they're going through a separation. And so it does make it even more difficult. You have set up these traditions that you're both used to. And that can also be difficult when you're trying to co -parent and figure out a new schedule for the holidays. I know when I went through my divorce, that was part of the issue that we had, was scheduling holidays. And finally, we came to an agreement that I would have my son every other holiday because that was just the easiest.
But, some of the best memories that we actually have weren't on the holidays. It was me traveling with the kids usually afterwards.
>> Chelsea: I think it's going to be a matter of like, the moms can go pretty wild on Christmas. I mean, we get into it. We really do, a lot of us do. And so you can, as a father and as a mother also, create a new tradition with your children, maybe buy a new ornament every year now that is just for your new tree. Or you guys can also do things together. Create some time as a family and then create new memories together as in at dad's house and at mom's house.
>> Jaimie: I agree. And creating those new memories is part of your new family tradition. And also, it is important to remember, and I think you mentioned that to slow the pace down. You know, don't overdo it on holidays, especially right after a breakup or a separation because slowing down and remembering it really is the thought and the time that you spend with your kids, that's most important. So yeah, yeah, thank you for your feedback here, Chelsea. And let's go ahead and bring on Dr. Don and see what he has to say. Dr. Don, what are some of your professional tips for parents to remember during the holidays?
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: Well, as you both mentioned, slowing down is probably most important. It's especially important because holidays can be very hard on parents, because that's a time where loss really hits us. And things that we used to love and cherish are not there anymore. So it's really hard on the parents to have this sense of loss. The extended families are not getting together, most likely. But it's really hard on the kids, because they've lost their family, the family they had hoped they would always have. And since it's such a hard time, that means that there's a lot of stress. And when parents are under stress, they're more likely to say things that they wish they hadn't said, they're more likely to be critical of the other parent to perceive a threat from the other parent to get aggressive toward the other parent. So those things are usually present during a divorce anyway, but the holidays can exacerbate those. And they can see the other parent is ruining the sense of family that they used to have for the holidays. So we really have to monitor ourselves as parents during this time to make it easier on ourselves to really slow down, to get outside in nature, to exercise, to eat well, to get good sleep, to do everything we need to do to be healthy and calm.
One of the most important things you can do is to give your children permission to love the other parent. One of the worst things about divorce is when the children think that they're not allowed to love both parents, and that's an impossible situation for them. So, if they have to hide their love for the other parent, that's really tough for them. If they think they're making one parent angry because they're showing interest and affection and love for the other parent, that puts them in an impossible bind. Your kids will have a range of feelings during the holidays, and you need to support those and recognize those, not dismiss them. They could be anxious, they could be nervous, they could be sad, and it's important to help them verbalize what they're feeling. We have a feeling wheel in our children's program where children learn how to express and recognize and express their feelings.
That's good advice for adults too, for us parents, to be able to recognize our feelings and admit them to ourselves, and that helps us cope with them. By pushing our strong feelings out of our awareness, which is tempting to do, it just comes up in other ways. It'll slow us down, it'll tire us, it'll make us distractible, so it's better to just admit the feelings we're having to ourselves, to talk out loud about them to someone else, and to do the same for our children.
Don't try to plan too much for the holidays, because you want to be really fun for the kids, but going from one place to another to another, especially if you're having to get on airplanes or drive long distances. Holiday travel is stressful for everybody, and there's often delays at airports.
Try to make new memories with your kids. New traditions that you can keep up year after year, for instance, going out and cutting a tree down. And in our family, we would go up to the property in the mountains and cut down a Christmas tree. It looked like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree, but it was important that we cut it down ourselves and brought it back and put decorations on it.
Try to be kind to your co -parent. That's a person at one point you loved, you may still love, but be kind to them. They're going through their own struggles, they're suffering themselves, and they will appreciate any acts of kindness, and it may surprise them. You'll never regret being kind to someone who is suffering.
>> Jaimie: Those are great tips and good things to keep in mind during the holidays. What would you say about sharing the kids with your ex during the holidays?
>>Dr. Donald Gordon: It's important to be especially generous with your ex and not to think, "Well, this is my time, I deserve this time," but to compromise and to give your ex time with the children because it's equally important to them. And they're more likely to reciprocate that if you're generous with your sharing.
Don't trash talk the other parent, don't say negative things about them. As we've said before in another podcast, the children identify with both of their parents and when you say negative things about the other parent, the children apply that criticism to themselves because the other parent is part of them, so if you call the other parent hateful or inconsiderate or lazy, the children are going to apply that to themselves. They can't even verbalize that they're doing that usually, so that's something that you're not going to know that they're applying to themselves, but you need to understand that that happens.
Another skill to use is “iMessages,” as Chelsea and Jamie have mentioned, where you state your feelings about the other parent's behavior without attacking them and stop, look, and listen. It's another skill to use where you stop yourself from your initial fight-or-flight response. You look at all your options, think of different ways you can handle it, and then listen to your better nature and coming up with a response. And another skill is don't assume the other parent's motives. Quite often when we're negative towards someone, we assume they have negative motives. We don't give them the benefit of the doubt. If you give your co-parent the benefit of the doubt, they'll appreciate it and they're more likely to reciprocate toward you.
One of the most hurtful things is when you have a good motive towards someone and they think you have a negative motive. It's very hurtful when that happens.
>> Jaimie: Right. And those are all beneficial skills to keep in mind, especially around the holidays. Once again, we appreciate you for tuning in and thank you, Don, for being here. And I hope you all have a wonderful holiday season.
The holidays are important and stressful times for families going through separation and divorce. How do you shield kids from stress? In this episode, Dr. Don gives some helpful tips for navigating the holidays as co-parents.
Visit https://divorce-education.com/resources/ for more.
S1:E5 - Expressing Feelings and Kids' Mental Health
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 5
“Expressing Feelings and Kids' Mental Health”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to Episode 5 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I'm Jamie, and today I'm here with my colleague Chelsea, and we'll be discussing a pretty serious issue that's been going on. We'll also bring on Dr. Don a little later so he can give his professional response on the subject.
So today's topic is on the children's mental health crisis that is going on. A lot of people and parents probably don't even realize or know that this has been a serious issue for the past few years, especially after and during COVID. There has been about a 40% increase of suicidal thoughts and behaviors in our younger generations, according to the CDC.
What are your thoughts on this, Chelsea? What are the common reasons you can think of for this mental health crisis in kids?
>> Chelsea: The first thing that comes to mind as a mother is technology. My child, this entire generation, and he's six, this entire generation of children is obsessed with their phones. And it's, I think, a superpower in one way to have access to the internet in the way that we do now. However, it needs to be used responsibly, and it's not always used that way. I think that as any parent right now, if you ask them if that's an issue, I think every single one of them would say yes, if they're not in control of setting some boundaries with technology. And I think that COVID-19, in many ways, impacted that, and it's linked. We all kind of navigated our lives through technology when COVID-19 hit. Not only that, but we were isolated from other people.
>> Jaimie: No, that's completely true, especially, I mean, being isolated, not being able to play outside, not being able to have friends like children usually would, and turning to those online or cell phones or technology-based learning systems as well had a huge impact. I actually homeschooled my daughter doing COVID. And yeah, well, I'll tell you right now, I am no teacher. But I did my best, but it wasn't until after the fact that I realized how far behind she was when she went back into regular school.
And like you mentioned, as well with social skills, those had definitely declined, but also her schoolwork and getting bullied and going back into that environment after being outside of it for so long was really, really rough.
>> Chelsea: You know, when COVID-19 first came out and first started impacting us, I remember one of my initial thoughts was out of empathy for the children who use school as an escape. And I know there are many, I was one at one point in my life. And there are situations that have been worse than mine. There is no doubt in my mind that that impacted them.
>> Jaimie: Oh, absolutely. Another huge and terrifying fact about COVID is that a lot of people did lose loved ones as well. A lot of children aren't prepared for that and they don't know how to deal with it. Let's go ahead and bring on Dr. Don.
Hi, Dr. Don. So Chelsea and I have been discussing the children's mental health crisis we have going on. What is your professional opinion on the subject, and why do you think this is happening and what can we do about it?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Well, from my point of view as a family psychologist, I know that children absorb and reflect the stress of their parents, how the parents are adjusting has a huge impact on how the children are adjusting. And we know that over 70 % of parents, adults in this society experience significant anxiety or depression every day. That's gonna have a huge effect on kids. What are the parents stressed about? You can probably answer this question yourself about the things that you worry about. Money and rising expenses is a huge stressor.
Climate catastrophe, all the conditions that are causing people to be stressed and having to move and dealing with floods and extreme heat and tornadoes. The lack of friends in the pandemic exacerbated that. So people who were in the habit of socializing a lot got out of that habit during the pandemic. And then political polarization, not wanting to be interacting with other people who have a different political point of view.
Distrust of each other in the government is at an all-time high. So that causes people to become more socially isolated. All these stressors put parents into a fight or flight mode. And when they're in a fight or flight mode, they can't attune to their children's distress and are simply physically unable to do that because those abilities come from the prefrontal cortex and the fight or flight mode blocks the prefrontal cortex from being able to work.
Now, when children are not comforted when they have stress, their stress worsens and it can become a mental health issue. There's a national shortage of therapists to treat parents and their children when the parents wanna get help for their kids. They can't get it. And also in schools, teachers really can't respond to the children's mental health needs because they're so overwhelmed with so many kids with emotional needs that are not being met.
There's one interesting thing and a sad statistic. Half of the parents of adolescents who thought of killing themselves were unaware that their teens were depressed. And three-fourths of the parents of adolescents who thought often about death were unaware that their teens were thinking about that.
What can we do for this? We can teach children to express their feelings to their parents and we can teach them techniques to reduce their own stress. Now this can be done with our new online program for kids, which is why I developed it to help deal with this mental health crisis for kids. But we have to increase the number of trained therapists by creating more graduate programs because even though there's federal money to pay for counselors in schools, there's simply not enough counselors. So we have to have graduate programs starting that increase the number of therapists that are out there. The current number of therapists that I know of are, their practices are full and they can't take on new clients and they're feeling overwhelmed. If we can train school guidance counselors and therapists in the latest evidence-based treatment methods, and those treatment methods tend to work faster than methods that aren't evidence-based, then parents in schools can do a better job of getting their children help. And schools can do a better job of reaching out to parents whose kids are struggling to form a partnership.
It really helps kids progress in schools if the parents are communicating with the teachers and working as a team with the teachers.
>> Jaimie: Even school counselors, those really are part of a fundamental thing that children do need growing up and to be able to express their feelings like you said. And as a parent, I can completely agree on being overwhelmed and stressed at times and it does definitely affect my parenting. You want to explain a little more about this new kids program?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: We developed this new program based upon our old kids program that a lot of schools used when they had groups of kids whose parents were divorced. This new program is for children ages 7 to 14, and it's intended to be used by the children and the parents together. So the parents are learning the same stress reduction techniques and emotional literacy skills that the kids are learning.
And then the parents can encourage their children to use those skills and prompt them, and they can also model those skills themselves. So that's why we want the parents to use the program with the kids. To keep the kids' attention, we developed an animated character called Orby, who's an alien from another universe. And this figure teaches the kids these skills, and he's working with the child hosts, and the five chapters in the program, each of them has a different child host, and they interact with Orby, and they teach these skills. These skills are especially helpful for kids dealing with divorce and separation.
Now, most of the kids who use this program with their parents experience less anxiety and depression, as their parents reported, and the parents and kids had more conversations about their feelings after going through the program.
>> Jaimie: Well, it sounds like a very beneficial program, especially with this mental health crisis. Well, we do appreciate you being here, Dr. Don, and thank you all for tuning in. See you next time.
How can parents and professionals help reduce the effects of the mental health crisis in today’s kids? Dr. Don gives tips on kids expressing and understanding feelings, and introduces the latest program from The Center for Divorce Education, Children in Between: For Kids.
S1:E6 - Grandparents
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 6
“Grandparents”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 6 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I'm Jaimie, and today I'm here again with my colleague Chelsea, and we'll be discussing a comment we received from a parent who took our program. We'll also bring on Dr. Don a little later so he can give his professional response on the subject.
So, let's get to it. Today's topic is in regards to grandparents and children. The parent feedback we got was asking for more information about grandparents taking care of children. So, I will assume that this person probably is a grandparent posing the question. Maybe they have custody of the children instead of the parents. Not sure, but we will touch on a few different situations with grandparents being involved. Let's start with you, Chelsea. What are your thoughts on grandparents taking care of their grandchildren?
>> Chelsea: Grandparents are supplemental. They're there to help. I think that grandparents can have an important role with grandchildren by giving them extra love. And sometimes, grandparents do end up with custody of their grandchildren because the parents may have substance abuse issues or drug abuse issues. And so sometimes it may be the best option for the children to be in the custody of their grandparents.
>> Jaimie: I mean, sometimes that can be better than CPS getting involved or foster homes, you never know, in certain situations, like drug or alcohol abuse. And the grandparents can be the best option for the children. They're much more likely to keep the parents involved also usually have a think than foster homes or CPS getting involved. They also have a lot of experience with life generally that can help shape a child's future. And they do tend to be much calmer than regular parents, you know, they've had all that experience already. And they're much more likely, I think, to teach children, especially young children, to cook or bake or do gardening, you know, things that most parents maybe don't have the time to do or aren't as experienced with. Obviously, there are other circumstances as well with grandparents being involved that we'll touch on briefly, like grandparents who live in the home with parents and grandchildren or grandparents who play a very active role in their grandkids lives. What advice would you give in those situations?
>> Chelsea: Well, let's say that the grandparents are living with the children and the grandchildren. Maybe they are part of the everyday household and decisions being made. Our Parenting Wisely courses actually touch on this a bit and how to handle multi family situations. In this case, it's best to have the parents and grandparents on the same page with rules and expectations for the children.
>> Jaimie: Agreed. Grandparents that are really close to their children or grandchildren need to remember that they are, you know, they're to be a good role model and help the children grow into healthy adults. Show the children love, obviously. And parents and grandparents should have frequent conversations, in my opinion, about what the expectations for those children are so that they can help teach the children the same principles too.
>> Chelsea: Right. These issues with children should be handled between the parents and grandparents. And not in front of the children. But grandparents can be role models for these kids and help shape them for the future.
>> Jaimie: Now let's go ahead and bring on the expert and see what he has to say. Dr. Don, what is your professional opinion on grandparents and their grandchildren?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Well, I'm really interested in this topic since I'm a grandparent. And I think it's a really important role. The most important role grandparents play is paying attention to their grandchildren, getting involved with what they're doing, and especially listening to them when they speak. So using the skill of active listening, where they can reflect back what they heard the child say, this is especially useful when the parents are really busy or are single parents and the other parents are not very involved with the kids, then the children need more support because of that. The grandparents provide childcare and transportation, and that helps relieve the stress that parents are feeling and allows them to recharge so they can spend better quality time with their own children because they're getting a break.
Grandparents can also support positive parenting practices by the parents, by withholding criticism of what they're doing, but being supportive and praising good parenting practices. Grandparents can recognize good parenting practices, for instance, through our Parenting Wisely online program which shows the best parenting skills that help children's adjustment.
Children find a lot of support from their grandparents when their parents are stressed or unavailable to them because they're getting attention from somebody that they love. Grandparents also can offer mature thinking that will help their less experienced adult children and stressed adult children solve problems better because the grandparents have more experience and are older and have more mature thinking.
So it's an opportunity for grandparents to correct mistakes that they themselves made by raising their children. For example, a lot of grandparents would use yelling or hitting to control the kids when they were misbehaving. But then later on as they get older, they realize that wasn't the best approach. So now they can encourage their own children to avoid yelling or hitting and do things like sitting down with a family meeting and having group problem solving and talking through solutions instead of reacting emotionally and yelling at the kids.
When parents are ignoring the kids because they're busy or they're stressed, they can model spending time with them and listening to the children and the parents can watch the grandparents using less stressed methods of interacting with the children.
>> Jaimie: Well, once again, we appreciate you all for tuning in and thank you, Dr. Don, for your feedback. See you next time.
Grandparents play an important role in the raising of healthy kids, especially in co-parenting situations. Grandparents can help reduce the stress on parents during and after divorce and separation. Parents and grandparents can learn new skills by using the https://parentingwisely.com/ programs.
S1:E7 - Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Score
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 7
“Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Score”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 7 of the Co -Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I'm Jaimie, and I'm here again with my colleague Chelsea, and today we'll be discussing ACE scores. Alright, Chelsea, since you are formally trained on the subject, why don't you go ahead and tell us what ACE scores are?
>> Chelsea: ACE stands for Adverse Childhood Experience. So to put it as simply as possible, there were highly credible studies conducted that determined which traumatic events in our life pack a punch, and the impact of having experienced a certain amount of them. A quiz was actually created that allows you to tally those events. That's called your ACE score, the number that you come up with.
The higher your ACE score, the more at-risk you are to trials and tribulations in adulthood, which by the way, you can find that quiz within some of our online parenting classes as well as on the resources page of our website.
>> Jaimie: So adverse childhood experiences, basically childhood traumas, right?
>> Chelsea: Pretty much. A few of the most common adverse childhood experiences are physical abuse, substance abuse, and surprise, surprise, divorce and separation. Unfortunately, 87% of ACEs occur together. And having accumulation of these experiences can result in a child growing up predisposed to mirroring those events themselves. Chronic mental illness, cancer, homelessness, and the list just goes on and on. Most dramatically though, ACEs can actually take years off of your lifespan.
>> Jaimie: Okay, so ideally we want to see these ACE scores decrease in future generations, right?
>> Chelsea: Oh, most definitely. And thankfully these studies have empowered us to identify what the risk factors are so that we can address this issue as a society. I think the buzzword we're hearing these days is generational healing. And that's pretty much exactly what this is.
>> Jaimie: Okay, well, I also did a little bit of my own digging here on this. Here's a few statistics that I found also. According to the CDC Kaiser ACE study, they uncovered a stunning link between childhood trauma and the chronic diseases people develop as adults, as well as social and emotional problems. This includes heart disease, lung cancer, diabetes, and many autoimmune diseases, as well as depression, violence, being a victim of violence, and suicide.
With an ACE score of 4 or more, things start getting really serious. Like the likelihood of chronic pulmonary lung disease is increases 390%, hepatitis 240%, depression 460%, attempted suicide 1220%. So clearly this is obviously depressing. Is there any way to prevent or even reverse the effects of ACEs?
>> Chelsea: Oh yeah, thank goodness. ACEs are preventable and there are measures being taken in communities across the US to help. As this is an issue that impacts us all as an entire society. I cannot emphasize how deeply I believe this to be an issue that heavily involves all of us and requires us to unify to solve.
While there are some amazing nonprofit programs specific to certain traumas, some things that we can do today as parents is open ourselves up to self-education with our finances, our emotional intelligence, our parenting skills too. And then be genuinely willing to make some improvements. It takes one easy web search to find the resources available to you from online classes to books and podcasts to local support groups.
Also, we can work to break the stigma with our daily conversations. Don't allow your struggles to become a taboo topic that remains unaddressed. Now, as far as reversing, what's important to know about ACEs is that they alter the way our brains develop in childhood. And our brains can be rewired. There are now evidence-based therapy techniques proven to help mitigate the effects of the traumas you've experienced.
There are also other intervention programs available to those who are most significantly impacted. A great place to start would be to speak with a licensed mental health professional.
I really have to say to parents who are listening, while it isn't your fault that you've experienced childhood trauma, it is your responsibility to address how you allow it to impact you and those around you, including your children. None of us are above needing a hand in this matter.
>> Jaimie: Let's go ahead and get Dr. Don on here. Dr. Don?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Okay, Chelsea mentioned that there are skills that our classes teach that can help with the disease and the damage from childhood trauma that we as parents can do to put ourselves in better shape to parent our kids. And one of the things that we teach is how to calm yourself. We learn in these classes that when you're not handling a situation well, you're having conflict with your ex, you're most likely in a fight or flight mode. That means your amygdala is activated. You can't show compassion, sympathy, empathy, reasoning when you're in the fight or flight mode, you're either going to run away or you're going to fight. So we teach skills to get yourself out of that fight or flight mode. And especially when you start to notice it like you're noticing your muscles are tensing up simple things like taking some deep breath. Just focusing on the sound of the breathing feeling some gratitude for what's going on in your life currently that's good. We teach communication skills so you can learn to communicate respectfully with your former partner so that you won't trigger them and provoke them.
So those are very important skills to minimize the effects of ACEs on our current situation. The biggest thing that we can do as parents is if you or your ex have experienced some of these childhood traumas and you're easily triggered and you're not handling situations well, to remind yourself that what your children need from you is calm attention. Paying attention to what they're saying and what they're doing. Making them feel supported and loved and cared for and noticed. You want your children to be seen and to be heard. So, helping them know that you understand what they're feeling is really important to them and will keep them from developing some of the risk factors for ACEs.
Our children's program teaches evidence-based methods for lowering their stress and teaches them how to express their feelings to their parents and It teaches the parents at the same time how to talk to their children when they expressed their feelings and how to listen to them for doing that. So, protecting your children if you or your ex has a score of 4 or more is really important.
That means that the two of you are more likely to be triggered and more likely to be in a fight or flight mode in which you're not going to be emotionally available for your children when you're in that mode. And the more often you're in that mode, the more damage happens to your children. And you're simply not aware of your children's distress because your brain isn't letting you, it's not giving you access to your frontal cortex where that's where you can emotionally attune to your children.
So, that's the best thing that you can do- help your children express their feelings, give them calm attention when you play with them, reflect what they're doing, listen to them when they're talking, use active listening to reflect back what you hear them saying. That makes children feel really good and really valued and having their parents do it is more important than having anyone else do it because they love their parents and are dependent on their parents for approval and security.
>> Jaimie: So not only is trying to reverse the ACE scores as adults by doing mediation, taking classes, coming up with some emotional support, but also trying to prevent the ACE scores in your children is just as important.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: There's one other factor I could mention. If your partner has an ACE score of 4 or more or you know of, they've had a number of traumatic experiences as children with a parent with substance abuse or violence or being neglected by a parent, it's important for you to develop some compassion for them and to know a lot of their conflict toward you and a lot of the things that they do you don't like is because of that. It's really not about you, it's because of what their early experience is. And so I encourage you not to take it personally when they are doing things that really irritate you. It comes from their own childhood trauma. And if you recognize that, that will help you not get triggered by their reactions.
>> Jaimie: And if you guys have not taken the quiz for your ACE score, we do encourage you to do so. It is important to know for yourselves and your children. Once again, we appreciate you all for tuning in. And thank you, Dr. Don, for your feedback.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: You're welcome.
An Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) score is an inventory of different types of abuse, neglect, and other indicators of childhood trauma. A high ACE score increases your risk for problems later in life. Get your ACE Score HERE.
S1:E8 - Using Money as Leverage
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 8
“Using Money as Leverage”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 8 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I am Jaimie, and today I'm here again with Chelsea, and we'll be discussing one of the comments we've received from a parent who took our Children in Between course. This parent asked what to do when one parent is using money against the other parent.
And this happens quite frequently, actually, and can be a difficult thing to deal with, where one parent seems to be the "fun" parent, and spends a lot of money on the children, while the other parent doesn't have the financial stability to do that. So this can also be one parent using child support payments against the other parent, or not helping out the other parent financially with the children when they're angry.
What are your thoughts on this, Chelsea? What would you suggest when one parent is using money against the other parent?
>> Chelsea: You know, we talk so often about really thinking about your children. It can hurt deeply to go through a divorce or separation, and it can be the most difficult thing ever to be on good terms with your co -parent, but you have to. Don't use money against the other parent. Instead, consider your children and what is best for them in both homes. And yeah, we do constantly say to think about your kids first, because it is true. If you're trying to out-parent the other parent, your children are suffering at the other home because you wanted to show off or use money against the other parent. And no, I don't mean don't take your kids out or have fun with them. I mean, to really think about what is best for them in the long run. Does your kid need new shoes? Do they need clothes or food? If they don't have these important things, but you want to take them to Disneyland so you can be the fun parent, to make sure that the other parent looks less exciting. That isn't fair in the long run for your kids. It may not seem fair that you have to pay child support because the other parent got custody, but your children do cost money. And the same goes for the opposite side. When a parent may be using the child support and not actually using it on the kids, but to go out and have a good time, which is equally not okay.
Child support is meant to help with the children and their needs. And that can include things like a roof over their heads and food on the table for them too. And if you are using your financial status just to make yourself look better, remember that these kids grow up and they are going to see one day that you were trying to buy their love instead of just being there for them and helping support them. Don't use money against the other parent instead consider your children and what's best for them in both homes.
We aren't saying to go out of your way to support the other parent's lifestyle either. Just that your children's lives don't just end in your home. Be there financially for them in whatever way you can and don't try to hurt the other parent by using money against them.
Let's go ahead and bring on the expert here and see what he has to say about the subject. Dr. Don, what are your thoughts on using money against the other parents?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: I think money is an issue probably for most divorcing parents or divorced parents because it's about our security. One of the reasons why divorce is so traumatic for parents is the second most stressful life event that people go through is because it's associated with security.
Two things about divorce that are the biggest threat is that you'll have less money afterwards. Your expenses will go up and your income may go down and you are worried about your access to your children and your children's emotional stability.
So two big things you're worried about is your own financial security and your children's, your own access to your children, especially if the other parent is trying to get complete custody and take the kids away from you with little contact. That makes people terribly frightened. It puts them into a fight or flight mode and then they can get very, very angry and aggressive in response to that. And some attorneys will take advantage of that and fan the flames because the litigation really goes up.
There'll be custody evaluations, there'll be appointments of attorneys to represent the kids and it's a long drawn out process. That's because the parents are so frightened. If they can talk to each other about their fear, they have a better chance of resolving it with less conflict. That makes the money issue, it makes a lot of sense. And so after the divorce has occurred, when one parent feels like the other parent should be paying more and is not, again, that strikes fear in their heart because that's security. And they're really worried about having enough money.
Other times parents will use it as sort of like scorekeeping. It's not fair that you're not paying for these extra things or you're not paying for our trip with the kids out of town. You should be paying for part of that or you're not paying for some of the school expenses. So some of the parents who are not cooperating very well like to keep score and they're very sensitive if they think the other parent is taking advantage of them through money.
This is why it's such a big deal and this is why it's so important for parents to learn the skills to reduce their fight or flight response, to reduce the amygdala hijack that occurs. When the amygdala hijacks the brain and you can't use your frontal cortex to calmly solve problems because money is an issue and if child support is not being paid for various reasons like the parent doesn't have a good job or doesn't have any job and a lot of states those two things are the courts look at those two things separately.
If the custodial parent is not getting child support, they do not allow that parent to say the other parent can't see the children so that they treat those separately. I know Texas in particular and Michigan in particular and I think Illinois are three states where that's the case. There's really a cool program in Wayne County, Michigan, which is Detroit, where they have gone with unemployed non-custodial parents, quite often fathers, and they weren't seeing the kids and through mediation they got the mom to agree to let the father see the kids even though he wasn't paying any child support.
Quite often that resolved that they stopped going to court, the dad was seeing the kids and then later on they got some employment and then they started paying child support so it ended up working out really well. Intentionally targeted those kids who are at risk, they weren't seeing, they're already in poverty and they weren't seeing one of their parents and that's a big risk factor particularly for African American kids. They're much more likely to get involved in the juvenile justice system when that's the case.
>> Jaimie: Don't we even go over that in our program that it's more likely that a parent will pay child support if they are involved with the kids too because then they feel the need to?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Yes, absolutely. They're much more likely to be involved. They're seeing how the children benefit from that. They're more likely to pay for the children's college or at least pay part of the expenses if they're seeing the kids. If they're not seeing the kids, it's rare that they're paying anything toward the children's college. So that really puts a kid at a disadvantage if they can't go to college. Kids from divorced families are less likely to go to college than kids from intact families.
>> Jaimie: Like we always say, do what is best for your children, financially, emotionally, the best that you can. We do appreciate you all for tuning in. Thank you, Don, again for your feedback.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: You're welcome.
After divorce or separation, money usually becomes tighter for both parents. Many support-paying parents resent having no say over how the money is spent, particularly if they think the children are not getting their needs met.
S1:E9 - High Conflict Divorce and Separation
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 9
“High Conflict Divorce and Separation”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 9 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I'm Jaimie, and today I'm here again with my colleague Chelsea, and we'll be finally discussing a very tough subject that many parents ask about. High conflict situations.
Before we go any further, keep in mind that Chelsea and I are not experts. We're simply here to give our own opinions on these subjects, and then hand it over to Dr. Don, the actual expert. So, Chelsea, we have had a few parents who took our program asking about more information on what to do in high conflict cases. What comes to mind for you?
>> Chelsea: Honestly, the high conflict parents that I come across working with customer support for our level 2 High Conflict Solutions parenting class tend to be my favorite, only because they're in the middle of a storm I've also been through, and I know how they're feeling to some extent. So, I also know that even though it feels beyond daunting, the stress does come to an end. So, when I speak with these people who are almost always about to crack from the stress, they've talked to someone that day who's holding on to some hope for them. I do think it's important to know what a high conflict case is, though. It's not to be mistaken for a domestic violence case, and also doesn't simply mean that your co-parent is a narcissistic jerk. It means the conflict between the co-parents is so significant that their struggles to communicate are affecting their ability to come to agreements regarding their children.
Mediation can help, but sometimes these parents need more assistance with finding middle ground. Parenting coordinators and custody evaluators are often very helpful in these cases. But about 15% of all divorces are considered high conflict, which is 15% too many.
>> Jaimie: Yeah. Parents don't usually intentionally hurt their kids, but when you are so focused on the other parent being angry with them, you are inadvertently hurting your child.
>> Chelsea: I completely agree. If you weren't focused on your child and what is best for them and instead you're spending your time angry with the other parent, then that's less energy you have to spend on being the best parent you can be. It's as simple as that. And Dr. Don has mentioned this in our previous podcast, but what we're talking about here is a brain chemistry thing. Parents can't attune to their child's emotions when they're under significant amounts of stress. Their brain just won't let them.
>> Jaimie: And in high conflict situations because there is so much emotion involved, it can really help to find other outlets to keep yourself occupied as well. Instead of focusing on the hurt or anger, talk to a friend, practice deep breathing, go on walks, or really focus on things that you enjoy to do. It can be hard ending a marriage or relationship. And we even say in the program that a lot of anger actually comes from fear. So keep in mind that your co-parent is also likely feeling that same fear, whether they show it or not. And I am curious because I know you've taken the eight hour online course before, what's your favorite parenting skill in High Conflict Solutions?
>> Chelsea: Empathy. We spoke about ACEs in episode eight of our co-parenting conversations podcast and how trauma can cause us to react in a certain way. These cases would go a bit more smoothly if parents learn to understand that their co-parent's trauma is what has them maybe shutting down or raging out. They can then take steps to respond in a healthy way.
All of those skills are taught in High Conflict Solutions too. What about you, Jamie? You've been through the program. What's your favorite high conflict solution skill?
>> Jaimie: I would say my favorite skill is actually giving the other parent the benefit of the doubt. So instead of getting angry with your co-parent because they fed the kids pizza and you're trying to have them eat better. You know, why don't you take a moment and think, well, maybe your co-parent is having a difficult time parenting or maybe they didn't feel well or maybe they just really wanted to give the kids pizza because they want to see the kids happy for the day.
Reframing what the other parent is doing really can make a huge difference too.
Well, let's go ahead and bring on the expert now, Dr. Don. And let's see what his thoughts are on high conflict situations.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: In high conflict cases, sometimes it leads to interpersonal violence or domestic violence. And that's more likely to happen if one parent feels entitled to control the behavior of the other parent and that usually precedes actual physical violence.
If you're in a situation where you think the other parent is controlling you, limiting your access to your family and friends, demanding where you go, where you spend your time, it's a good thing to develop a safety plan for getting out quickly, for you and your children getting out quickly to be able to communicate with your local domestic violence shelter.
So domestic violence is common in high conflict cases, but there's ways that you can minimize the damage. Some of the skills that we teach in this high conflict program can be helpful in not triggering the other parent to become violent. For instance, “I Message” is a good one, when instead of criticizing them, you talk about your feelings about their behavior, making a polite request for them to change, and a lot of domestic violence victims know how to do this. They work very hard to avoid triggering the other parent and some of the skills we teach in the program can help you with that.
You talked earlier about your favorite skills. One of my favorite skills in that program is stop, look, and listen. So when you're in a situation that's getting tense, first you survey your body to see if you're feeling tension. You stop yourself from reacting quickly. You look at all of your options. What are the different ways you can react to this? Reminding yourself that you have more than one option. You don't have to fight back. You don't have to trade insults. You don't have to run away. Look at your different options and then listen to your better nature. Choose your best self to respond. Even if it doesn't have a really good effect or noticeable effect on your ex, you're setting a really good example for your children when you do this and they're learning. That's how the best way they learn is from the example that you said.
Another thing to be sensitive to about high conflict, you're doing damage to yourself in this conflict. It's not just the other parent that if you're aggressive toward the other parent, you're also doing damage to yourself because when you're in the state of fight or flight, the amygdala, which is part of your brain that we teach you about in our high conflict program, the amygdala is the fight or flight response and that's triggered and the amygdala becomes active. You don't have access to your prefrontal cortex where you can make calm decisions where you can be empathic, where you can be emotionally attuned to other people, including your children. You simply physically cannot access those skills, so you have to get yourself out of the fight or flight response before you can do that.
Your body is generating cortisol and adrenaline and that affects yourself greatly. It affects your brain. There's actually some evidence that you're losing gray matter in your brain, the more often you're being flooded with cortisol. That's true of your children too, when they are witnessing or hearing about or seeing an intense argument between their parents, even if they're in another room. That cortisol release stays in their body for 72 hours. So when they go to school, their ability to concentrate and focus is impaired. And their ability to regulate their emotions is impaired. So this can cause them to become a behavior problem in school. Most parents don't know this. They think, oh, kids are resilient or they didn't really pay attention to our fight. They did pay attention and their bodies are generating cortisol, which is having an effect on their brain.
Parents tell us that learning that has really helped them shield their children from conflict. They didn't know that that was happening. It takes 72 hours for that cortisol to get out of their system.
>> Jaimie: Yeah, that's a long time.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: And you have to also watch yourself. You have to look for ways to avoid being triggered by the other parent and to be able to give yourself other options to calm down so you're not triggered, so you don't get into this negative spiral that Jaimie, that you and Chelsea were talking about, this vortex.
>> Jaimie: Right.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Another factor is that when you are in fight or flight mode, you're not aware and don't have any compassion for the suffering of your child's other parent. So they too are suffering.
>> Jaimie: Right.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: And they're unhappy and they're stressed and they're having damage to their brain as well. And if this is a person that you once loved, that you shared goals, lifetime goals with and even though right now you're in the middle of a fight and don't feel any compassion, that's something that you can develop, that they're also suffering.
>> Jaimie: Thank you, Don, for being here. We appreciate you all and thanks for tuning in. See you next time.
Most divorces and separations have a least some conflict. But about 10-20% of breakups are considered high conflict cases and require court intervention. How well co-parents handle the breakup will affect children’s pain, how their needs are met, and how their future unfolds.
S1:E10 - Dealing With A Narcissist
Transcript of the Co-Parenting Conversations Podcast, Season 1, Episode 10
“Dealing With A Narcissist”
>> Introduction: Welcome to the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast, brought to you by the Center for Divorce Education. With renowned psychologist, Dr. Donald Gordon, we will delve into the complex world of co -parenting during and after divorce and separation.
Join us as we explore some of the emotional, legal and practical aspects of parental breakups, helping you navigate this transformative journey with wisdom and guidance. Whether you're currently going through a divorce, contemplating separation, or supporting a loved one in their journey, the Center for Divorce Education is here to empower you with knowledge and offer you a roadmap towards a brighter future.
The information presented in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only. The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute mental health therapy or to diagnose mental health disorders.
The presentation of this material is not intended to constitute legal advice. Participants are encouraged to discuss specific legal questions with a licensed attorney of their choice.
>> Jaimie: Welcome to episode 10 of the Co-Parenting Conversations podcast by the Center for Divorce Education. We provide online parenting classes for divorcing and separating parents. I am Jaimie, and once again, I'm here with my colleague Chelsea, and today we will be going over our most asked about subject, narcissists. We have many parents who do ask how to handle situations with a narcissist.
Now, first, let's go ahead and really look at the definition of a narcissist, which is a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves. A person who lacks empathy has almost no idea of how others are feeling, or understanding of how to make them feel better. A lot of people do say, "Oh, he or she is a narcissist," but they really need to look back and think about if this person ever showed empathy or cause or concern. If they were incapable of that, you very well might have been dealing with a narcissist, but just because someone thinks highly of themselves and wants power or success does not make them a narcissist. It could just be them trying to show off or better themselves in their own way, I suppose.
>> Chelsea: True. To put this all into perspective, narcissistic personality disorder affects only about 1% of the population, which really hasn't changed since 1968 when it was actually established as a disorder.
>> Jaimie: Whether they are just, you know, being a jerk or a narcissist, let's cover some skills that you can use to deal with this person. First thing that comes to mind for me is to remind yourself that you are good enough, and not to blame yourself for their behavior. A lot of dealing with narcissists and getting hurt stems from them actually throwing out how much better they are than you when in reality, that may not actually be the case.
You know, remember that they just need to feel good about themselves and this has nothing to do with you. You need to just stay focused on yourself and your kids and don't take their, you know, their behavior personally.
>> Chelsea: Ooh, that part. The reason a lot of people even get caught up with narcissists is because they lack boundaries. So that's one thing that may give victims of narcissistic abuse some empowerment. Work on creating and holding some boundaries.
>> Jaimie: Many parents may feel like the other parent shouldn't, you know, have their children because they are a narcissist or they don't deserve their children. But also try to keep in mind that the children do still deserve both parents in their life and they do deserve to love both of you.
>> Chelsea: Right. Right. Yeah. Don't commit parental alienation against people who are still technically fit to parent.
>> Jaimie: The best thing that you can do is not to feed into the narcissist's need for attention. When you stop giving attention to what other people are doing, they eventually stop the behavior because yeah, all they really wanted was a reaction from you. So it gives you back your own power and lessens the other person's continued conflict towards you when you stop acknowledging it as well.
>> Chelsea: There are ways to live a healthy, functional life and begin to genuinely thrive without feeling like you're constantly at war. So there is help out there. And whatever side of the situation you're on, the online parenting classes based on Dr. Don's research all have tools that can help with opening and controlling lines of communication with your children and co-parent. You're not alone in this.
>> Jaimie: Dr. Don, what is your professional advice on how to deal with a narcissist?
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Well, when you're dealing with a narcissist, it's important that you have established as mentioned earlier boundaries for yourself. And they're very important. It helps to stick to specific parenting schedule to have them spelled out parenting schedules and times. Even such things as when the other parent should call and be able to talk to the children. So that is something that doesn't have to be constantly negotiated. The narcissist will often seek attention by trying to negotiate everything, even stuff that has been settled.
It's also good to communicate via text or email instead of with your voice on the phone or in person to minimize being manipulated by the narcissist. And that way you can control what you're saying via text and email. You can think about it before you hit the send button. If you want to also keep your communication down to a minimum, you can use an online scheduling program such as Our Family Wizard, which is a really good way to set the times for the kids, to keep records of things, to exchange money. So you don't have to do this in person. And this has been very helpful for parents to be able to bring about co-parenting instead of cooperative parenting. We are doing parallel parenting.
It's important with a narcissistic parent to avoid criticizing them. Quite often they have low self-esteem, although it doesn't seem that way. But their egos can be pretty fragile like eggshells. And your criticizing them will set them off. If you can avoid doing that, which is really tempting because they're criticizing you, you can minimize the interaction.
Another thing that's important for you as a parent is to empathize with your children to help them understand what's going on to express their feelings. And you can set a good example by using “I Messages,” which we teach in our programs, where you're expressing your feelings toward the other parent. And you can set that example. And if your children can express their feelings, they have a much better way of increasing their emotional intelligence and being able to resolve issues. They'll also let you know how they're feeling. Quite often, parents whose children are very stressed, very anxious or depressed, don't know that their children are stressed, anxious, and depressed because the children don't have any words for that. So it's important they learn how to express these feelings. And our children's program does a good job of doing that. Not only does it teach them how to express their feelings, it teaches them how to use evidence-based methods for reducing their stress. Things like deep breathing, gratitude, thinking of happy memories. So they're better able to take care of themselves and lower their own stress. You're using these stress reduction methods too in front of your children would be another powerful way to set a good example.
With a narcissistic co-parent, don't have any illusions that they're going to change, if you just change the way you act there, they're going to become less narcissistic. Expect them to continue to be that way and you just have to work around it.
This may sound strange, but anytime they show consideration or kindness or compassion for other people, especially your children, praise them for that. Give them attention for that. They like attention. So if you can limit yourself to not giving attention to them unless they're showing something positive or kind, then you give your attention to that. And what we generally find out is not only do ignoring things that you don't like help that behavior to stop, but giving attention to things that you do like, you'll see more of that behavior.
>> Jaimie: Yeah, we also go over that actually in our Parenting Wisely programs as well to not condone bad behavior with your kids. You know, praise them for the good behavior, but don't don't constantly get on them for bad behavior because most people go towards getting attention, whether it is good or bad.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Right. Like you'll see with your children that they will train their parents to pay attention to them when they're fighting. That's more likely if the parents are not paying attention to them and they have to have a fight to get the parents attention.
>> Jaimie: Which essentially I would say is very close to how a narcissist is.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: Yes, they'll pick a fight with you because they want your attention
>> Jaimie: Yep, exactly.
>> Dr. Donald Gordon: So it's best if they're behaving in a rational non-controlling way. They're being reasonable. That's what you pay attention to. That's what you give your attention to and withdraw your attention when they're not being that way. So you really have a lot more power than you realize, but we're kind of, as humans, we generally pay attention to when things are going wrong and we're stressed. Then we pay attention to that and you have to train yourself to pay attention to when things are going right.
>> Jaimie: Well, we appreciate you for being here, Dr. Don. This does put an end to season one, but we do wish you all a wonderful holiday season and we will see you next year.
A narcissist lacks empathy. How do you navigate co-parenting issues with a narcissist? In this episode, Dr. Don gives some helpful tips for communicating with a narcissistic co-parent.
S2:E1 - Back To School Tips For Co-Parents
Back-to-school can be stressful for parents and kids, especially during or after a divorce or separation. In this episode, Dr. Don gives some helpful tips for reducing your child's stress during this time.
S2:E2 - Attuning to Children's Feelings and Managing Stress
In this episode, Dr. Gordon discusses the importance of attuning to your children's feelings amidst the stresses of modern life. As rising housing costs and other pressures mount, Dr. Gordon offers compassionate advice on how to stay connected with your kids while managing your own stress. This conversation is essential for co-parents seeking to create a supportive environment at home, even in challenging times.
S2:E3: General Parenting Tips and Managing Screen Time
In this episode, Dr. Gordon offers advice on managing your child's screen time, handling kids acting up in public, and encouraging them to help with household chores. Packed with practical tips, this discussion provides advice for navigating these common parenting challenges and creating a balanced, cooperative home environment.
S2:E4: Accountability and Improved Communication with Stephen Nixon
Dr. Don welcomes special guest Stephen Nixon, family law attorney and founder of the Talking Parents app, to discuss how accountability and improved communication can reshape co-parenting dynamics. Learn how transparent and productive interactions between co-parents can reduce stress, save money on court and attorney costs, and foster healthier relationships between co-parents.
S2:E5: Overcoming Cheating and Self-Care After Divorce
In this episode, co-hosts Jaimie, Chelsea, and Dr. Gordon explore overcoming the emotional challenges of infidelity after divorce or separation. They offer practical advice on self-care, maintaining a healthy relationship with your children, and resisting the urge to use them in conflicts with your ex-partner. Dr. Gordon emphasizes the importance of personal healing before entering new relationships and avoiding parental alienation. Tune in for insights on how to move forward and provide stability for your family.
S2:E6: Benefits of the Children in Between Program
Explore how the Children in Between online program helps divorcing or separating parents reduce conflict and stress while improving co-parenting skills. Dr. Donald Gordon highlights the importance of effective communication, reducing loyalty conflicts, and supporting children during family transitions. With proven methods like "I" messages and active listening, parents can foster healthier relationships with their co-parent and children. Discover how this program is designed to lower stress, decrease court visits, and create a more stable environment for families.
CDE's Children in Between is a skills based program that helps children and parents deal with the children's reactions to divorce. This is the most highly recommended online parenting class in the United States.
The program is based on research that identifies the most common and stressful loyalty conflicts experienced by children of divorce.
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